Thanks Nick - I appreciate your takeaways from Alberta’s book. I just finished it yesterday. I feel like I’ve read a bunch of titles in this category and continue to come away “baffled,” as Brian Zahnd describes himself, even though I followed the same discipleship path. Do you have any sources to help with your second point - how to understand (experience?) and teach the Bible as a poetic document? That’s fascinating to me.
Great question, Jennifer. I think the Bible Project podcast is one of the most phenomenal sources for what I'm trying to describe. Jon and Tim really recapture the way the Bible is meant to be read as a complicated, baffling, Christ-centered, poetic, imagery-rich, ingenious book. I listen to it every evening.
Hey Nicholas, I loved this piece, and I also just read the first chapter of Tim Alberta, so I'm reflecting on some common experiences of yours and his. My observation, as someone who is still inclined to call himself a conservative, is of the diversity of evangelical experiences. While I have met individuals who meet the description of a Christian whose conservative politics has overwhelmed their faith, I have largely been spared the experience of evangelical church cultures where this is the case. I grew up in a multi-ethnic Pentecostal church, where my parents were among the few college-educated individuals.
This has led me to find some of the broad critiques of evangelicalism inaccurate - but in the last few years, several friends have described to me how their context is more like what you have described, of cultural Christianity and conservative, fear-based politics. This has helped me not to universalize my experience. I appreciated your story about your first pastorate for this reason!
I do want to observe that in intellectual circles on the right, there is significant movement toward Christianity. The secular intellectual right, influenced by Jordan Peterson, is leading defectors from secular progressivism toward political classical liberalism and conservatism first, and then to Christianity. But I would sharply distinguish the intellectual right from the popular right, which you are describing. Still, it is a counter-example to the idea that conservative politics is leading people to be less religious.
Thanks for sharing. I think I would go a bit further and say your experience is in the minority of evangelical experiences. 2/3 of those who've left the church over the past two decades, in the largest church exodus in American history, claimed that their parents' version of evangelicalism was a deciding factor. Among their responses to why that was:
• All their emphasis on culture war lost me over time (14%)
• Their lack of love, joy, gentleness, kindness, and generosity (14%)
• Their inability to listen (14%)
• Their inability to engage with other viewpoints (13%)
Nicholas, could you share the study, and how do these 14-13% stats overlap? Do they all add up to 66%, or how does that work? I guess I would say that my experience conforms more to what evangelical intellectuals, at least since the 60s, but maybe the 40s, have hoped evangelicalism - in distinction from fundamentalism - would embody. That makes me think that the true American neo-evangelical project is what must be continued/returned to, breaking free from the resurgence of fundamentalism into evangelicalism that the moral majority/religious right brought in the 80s and 90s. How does that sound?
I would also say that the kinds of politically conservative evangelicals who would go to a PCA church, say, would probably be more like those I have encountered, maybe? I'm politically conservative, but being a QAnon type, or an unapologetic Trump advocate, or another unsavory and compromised version of "conservative Christian" are not even desirable options. However, I do think those errors are strongly to be avoided, hence, my recent critiques of the temptation to fear and form too strongly negative a vision of the world.
Overall, I'm very interested in figuring out the percentages here, and what we call "evangelical." I do want to figure out how common your kinds of experiences are, and how common mine are - and I should mention that mine had plenty of issues as well, but not the overall bad taste in the mouth that I hear from some. Thanks again.
The study is in the Great DeChurching...would highly recommend. I may have buried the headline, but the key stat is that 2/3 of those who left the church said their parents' version of evangelicalism was instrumental in their deconstruction. When asked why, these are the top five answers.
Totally agree on returning to classic evangelicalism...that's really at the heart of my book project.
Thanks Nick - I appreciate your takeaways from Alberta’s book. I just finished it yesterday. I feel like I’ve read a bunch of titles in this category and continue to come away “baffled,” as Brian Zahnd describes himself, even though I followed the same discipleship path. Do you have any sources to help with your second point - how to understand (experience?) and teach the Bible as a poetic document? That’s fascinating to me.
Great question, Jennifer. I think the Bible Project podcast is one of the most phenomenal sources for what I'm trying to describe. Jon and Tim really recapture the way the Bible is meant to be read as a complicated, baffling, Christ-centered, poetic, imagery-rich, ingenious book. I listen to it every evening.
Thanks! I’m a big fan of Bible project too - have learned so much from their podcast especially. Glad you like them.
Hey Nicholas, I loved this piece, and I also just read the first chapter of Tim Alberta, so I'm reflecting on some common experiences of yours and his. My observation, as someone who is still inclined to call himself a conservative, is of the diversity of evangelical experiences. While I have met individuals who meet the description of a Christian whose conservative politics has overwhelmed their faith, I have largely been spared the experience of evangelical church cultures where this is the case. I grew up in a multi-ethnic Pentecostal church, where my parents were among the few college-educated individuals.
This has led me to find some of the broad critiques of evangelicalism inaccurate - but in the last few years, several friends have described to me how their context is more like what you have described, of cultural Christianity and conservative, fear-based politics. This has helped me not to universalize my experience. I appreciated your story about your first pastorate for this reason!
I do want to observe that in intellectual circles on the right, there is significant movement toward Christianity. The secular intellectual right, influenced by Jordan Peterson, is leading defectors from secular progressivism toward political classical liberalism and conservatism first, and then to Christianity. But I would sharply distinguish the intellectual right from the popular right, which you are describing. Still, it is a counter-example to the idea that conservative politics is leading people to be less religious.
At the same time, I want to admit that there is also movement on the intellectual right toward a vitalist, Nietzschean reactionary politics. That is something of which intellectual conservatives should be wary. This would be an example of one of the Christians cautioning against the secular, vitalist right: https://open.substack.com/pub/becomingnoble/p/choose-boldly-between-christianity?r=k9yk0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web.
I think I'm going to write more on this, but distinguishing intellectual from popular right would be helpful. Thanks for writing!
Thanks for sharing. I think I would go a bit further and say your experience is in the minority of evangelical experiences. 2/3 of those who've left the church over the past two decades, in the largest church exodus in American history, claimed that their parents' version of evangelicalism was a deciding factor. Among their responses to why that was:
• All their emphasis on culture war lost me over time (14%)
• Their lack of love, joy, gentleness, kindness, and generosity (14%)
• Their inability to listen (14%)
• Their inability to engage with other viewpoints (13%)
• Their racial attitudes or actions (13%)
Nicholas, could you share the study, and how do these 14-13% stats overlap? Do they all add up to 66%, or how does that work? I guess I would say that my experience conforms more to what evangelical intellectuals, at least since the 60s, but maybe the 40s, have hoped evangelicalism - in distinction from fundamentalism - would embody. That makes me think that the true American neo-evangelical project is what must be continued/returned to, breaking free from the resurgence of fundamentalism into evangelicalism that the moral majority/religious right brought in the 80s and 90s. How does that sound?
I would also say that the kinds of politically conservative evangelicals who would go to a PCA church, say, would probably be more like those I have encountered, maybe? I'm politically conservative, but being a QAnon type, or an unapologetic Trump advocate, or another unsavory and compromised version of "conservative Christian" are not even desirable options. However, I do think those errors are strongly to be avoided, hence, my recent critiques of the temptation to fear and form too strongly negative a vision of the world.
Overall, I'm very interested in figuring out the percentages here, and what we call "evangelical." I do want to figure out how common your kinds of experiences are, and how common mine are - and I should mention that mine had plenty of issues as well, but not the overall bad taste in the mouth that I hear from some. Thanks again.
The study is in the Great DeChurching...would highly recommend. I may have buried the headline, but the key stat is that 2/3 of those who left the church said their parents' version of evangelicalism was instrumental in their deconstruction. When asked why, these are the top five answers.
Totally agree on returning to classic evangelicalism...that's really at the heart of my book project.
This was so long!
And every bit of it worth reading. Thank you.